i don't think that they're at a point where they feel like they have to give on what president obama said he won this election on, which is having wealthier americans pay higher tax rates. they want to talk about entitlements and this and that, but the tax rates on the rich are more about just this policy debate. there's sort of this philosophical thing of i won the election, and obama -- i don't see any scenario by which he's going to back down. >> one of the things he did which i found interesting, which seems an unnecessary poke in the eye was to say, you know what, as part of this deal i think we should not have congress anymore have to approve raising the debt limit. that was certainly -- >> well, when you go into a negotiation you don't come in with your compromise to start. you kind of have to start at 10 to get -- and it never worked for him before. but the offer from mitch mcconnell, the minority leader, said he laughed at timothy geithner when he presented this offer. but you have to sort of start from your negotiating ground to get to the middle. i will say that it was rej